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Pugs.com :: View topic - Scratched Corneas
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Scratched Corneas
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MagicRe
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:25 pm Post subject: Scratched Corneas Reply with quote

Bubba, when we rescued him, went to the vet within twenty four hours, mainly because he had not been neutered and, well, i had never seen a little boy produce THAT much urine.

That aside, during his exam, the doc discovered that both corneas were scratched from a malformation of his lower eye lids and I'm pretty sure he said that eventually bubba would go blind from this.

Has anyone had experience with this? My vet did not seem to keen on the surgical fix, thinking that surgery could cause more damage and he is not in pain....and so, having so many problems with the little tyke in the beginning, that issue was put on hold.

well, bubba is turning into a real dog and now i'm thinking about this eye thing.

he doesn't have droopy eye lids nor does he have a discharge, although he does have stuff i wipe off periodically. he also does not have red eyes nor does he seem to be in any discomfort.

if anyone has had surgery performed on their dogs for this problem, which i believe he said was genetics for pugs....please let me know.

i'm going to make an appointment with an eye specialist, but if the cure is worse than the bite, i may not do anything further.....i'd like to hear experiences from this side of the table or from vet people.

Thanks.
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coleman
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Scratched Corneas Reply with quote

The medial entropian IS quite common in pugs....but NOT ALL pugs do have it....I had one with it- and have two without.  It does cause scarring- which yes eventually will lead to at least partial vision loss.  The one I had with it....I was opting for the surgery.....which is exactly why I don't have that one any longer (the breeder did not believe in performing the surgery- and so wanted her back).  You definitely want this diagnosed and performed by a specialist.....so sounds like you are already going that route -so that is good.  The surgery to correct the lids will not cause more damage....maybe your vet was referring to surgery to correct the scarring- they remove a layer of the cornea...this surgery is VERY painful and yes often unsuccessful.  Your opthamologist will be able to determine if the scarring is minimal and the eyelid surgery would be worth it.  The only drawbacks are....it must be performed BEFORE too much damage has already been done.....and it is pretty expensive.  I was quoted somewhere in the $1,700 range.  Best wishes...and either way- having his eyes checked by an opthamologist- will be money well spent.
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ndemmons
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: Scratched Corneas Reply with quote

Hello, coleman is right, the procedure would be someone around that price. Of course, pain-free eyes are priceless.
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atillasmom
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Scratched Corneas Reply with quote

You should talk to ShanaDoll (Arielle) about this-- she's got more experience with it than anyone here except for maybe Bethy.
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ShanaDoll
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: Scratched Corneas Reply with quote

haha im here!!! Yes, I do have alot of experience with eye issues and pugs but this was an easy one! Shana (my fawn) has her own special ophthalmologist which we have spent nearly as much as a car at BUT the surgery for the entropian was an easy one and was definitely not that expensive although it depends on where you live where prices can vary.

The entropian was Shana's first eye surgery and went very well and cost $723 including the two follow up visits. Shana didnt have a very bad case of the entropian and like yours, it never seemed to really bother her but I was in no way going to let my baby go blind later on in life. All of her other eye surgeries have been from different issues nothing stemming from the Entropian so I would suggest getting it fixed because, for me it was a very smooth procedure and now her eyes are no longer irritated  Smile

This is a picture right after her stitches came out. You can see the discoloration in the corners of her eyes but they went back to black about 3 weeks after the stitches came out.

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MagicRe
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Scratched Corneas Reply with quote

thank you everyone for your input.....

we rescued our little black beastie four months ago and there seemed to be more pressing physical and psychological issues we had to deal with first....

now that he's starting to feel safe and he's settling in, this issue MUST be addressed.

and, in thinking about it...i'm a little miffed at my vet who seemed so nonchalant.

i don't think the surgery would be to correct the scratching....because if it's not causing him discomfort i would not subject him to having a layer of cornea removed.

i had a shih tzu who sliced a piece of cornea from his eye and he was in agony...it led to his death.....G'd rest my baby's soul.....to this day, we haven't figured out how he did it....but he was old, very old.....

my little bubba is 2 and a half.....i'm glad you guys are posting pricing if this is what it is and i suspect this is what it is....i was fearful that the surgery would cost five thousand dollars and that, i simply cannot afford.....but i don't want him to be in pain, either....or go blind....:(

i have an appointment with an eye specialist on friday, so i'll report back....

again, thank you everyone.....it helps to have information....
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MagicRe
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: Scratched Corneas Reply with quote

well, bubba's surgery will cost a bit more than yours did....but we only have a few eye surgeons in this state, so i guess they can pretty much charge what they want....i had read that the average price including follow up, meds, collar and special harness...could cost around 1700 - 2500 for our area.

i was sad to find out that, yes, he is certainly in discomfort...and who wouldn't be if eyelashes were constantly scratching the inside of your eye....we were addressing so many issues with our little bubba rescue that it didn't occur to me...four months ago. he didn't even have irritated eyes....

but now we will get it taken care of...and he won't have this problem...i like the stats on the success of this surgery....90 - 95% cure....although it's possible he'll be on some kind of meds for life..maybe tears or whatever...

as long as he's not in pain, i can deal....if the end result had been blindness i probably could have dealt with that...but not pain...never pain...

so on february 5, he will get an eye job. this dog has had more plastic surgery than i ever will LOL....
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MommatoaPug
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Scratched Corneas Reply with quote

So glad you were able to resolve his eye issues. Sorry the cost is more but what can you do if it is the only way to fix them.

You mentioned the Elizabethan collar, I know there is a more comfortable one out there. I can't think of the name but it blows up I believe and looks more like a tub that goes around the neck. I think the cost is about the same though. Amber~atillasmom~has one that she uses for Wicket when he has had eye issues. Hopefully she will see this and can give you the name of it.

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atillasmom
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: Scratched Corneas Reply with quote

We had the blow up collar and it did work for awhile, until Wicket learned that he could still rub his eyes on the carpet.  We ended up getting an e-collar after all.  You'll probably be doing cyclosporine for tear production.  Wicket had a different surgery but it was $700 for just one eye-- it can definitely get expensive.  The cyclosporine is $30 and it lasts us 6 weeks to a month, doing it twice a day.  Good luck, and I'm glad your baby found you so he can get the care he needs.
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ShanaDoll
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: Scratched Corneas Reply with quote

Glad that you are going to be getting the issue addressed.... your baby will be so much more comfortable after its all said and done. Sorry its so much more expensive by you, thats always tough but you are a wonderful pugparent for getting your baby the help he needs Smile
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MagicRe
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: Scratched Corneas Reply with quote

i can't let this boy be in pain....and i just want to choke the life out of the people who owned before we rescued him and the pardon me, idiots who bred the parents of this little guy...

be that as it may, i was told he could go into his kennel with the collar on...but it seems to me those collars are huge....you can tell i've never done this before...

how do they eat? how do they sleep?

we're thinking of pulling a mattress into the living room so he can sleep with me....and we'll leash him to the couch with enough room so that he's on the mattress with me...he still has urinary issues and isn't quite housetrained or he is incontinent but the jury is still out on that one....

but walking? it rains a lot here and i don't know if we can do the walks we are used to doing for the three weeks he'll be in his collar...

so many questions...i just want to be fully prepared.

we walk our dogs because we live in an apartment and we don't have any real yard to speak of....

he has his 'pee/poo' spots and that's what we trained him to.....so i guess it will be walks around the block to do his business and that's pretty much it for three weeks....does that sound about right?
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atillasmom
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: Scratched Corneas Reply with quote

You cut the collar to the size you need.  I took Wicket's off to eat and just watch him carefully.  He did pull out his stitches at one point and we had to have them tightened.  Here are a few pics of him, and yes, he was a baby (14 weeks) when he had to have the surgery for the ulcer he had.  When he slept he kind of leaned his head against the side of the cone.
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Here's the blow up collar-- you can see how he'd still be able to rub the eye on things besides his foot.
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ShanaDoll
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:54 am Post subject: Re: Scratched Corneas Reply with quote

We didnt have to cut ours... but we also took them off when they had to eat  and when we went outside. I was really smart (heavy sarcasm there) and had Libi's nose surgery (we also rescued her and cant believe the condition these ppl kept her in) the day after Shana had her first eye surgery a week before we moved from our apartment to our house so it was really hectic! But the girsl refused to go to the bathroom with the collars on and couldnt go up the stairs because the collars would get caught on the steps.

They both slept with the collars on at night though and had no problem at all.

Here is a picture of them sleeping on the couch
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Enjoying the sun
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This was move in day at the new house a week after their surgeries
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MagicRe
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Scratched Corneas Reply with quote

so, this is a fairly common thing with pugs...nose and eyes? not necessarily back yard breeding and puppy mill..

it seems he's had everything a pug could have, other than the deadly serious stuff, thank G'd....

and, after he gets this surgery....we need to address the incontinence during sleep....decide whether or not to medicate or just keep him on belly bands...

shana...when we lived in georgia, vet prices were about 1/2 or less than what people pay in seattle...it's crazy here. you'd think they were all celebrities..


thanks, everyone, for showing me the collars..i have to admit this is virgin turf for me...guess i've been lucky with my shih tzus and llhasas and my ditch dog, malia....

those collars make me uncomfortable..i imagine all kinds of trouble he can get into....

and eye surgery doesn't make my day either.....i have a medical background and we are all a little nuts, imagining what can go wrong...and not until the surgery is over and it's a success.....do we relax....so the dog is fine and i'll be medicated LOL

thanks all for the support. i'm going to need it on the 5th...forgive me in advance when that day comes. LOL
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Scratched Corneas Reply with quote

Well. . . ok it could just be one of those genetics things that pop up.  Wicket has a rare autoimmune condition called Pannus (at least rare in pugs) and since it never showed up in any of the other dogs in his breeding lines I'm inclined to think it was just one of those things.  However if he's had "everything" a pug is known for, then I would suspect the breeder and the genetics.  It's not an exact science, but if a reputable breeder notices that one of her studs is throwing pups with eye conditions she will take him out of the breeding program.  So if you got a pup with LOTS of problems it's possible the breeder wasn't weeding out breeding stock with health issues.  Not saying that's what happened, just that it could have.  Labeling someone a byb or puppymiller is a touchy thing.

Just imagine how I felt when the vet told me if he didn't do surgery right away Wicket's eye might pop.  I was literally bawling right there in the office.  Luckily the surgery was successful, but we still have to treat the underlying condition.
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